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HR Superstars

Episode 18 · 1 year ago

How Our Emplify Acquisition Helps Elevate HR To A Strategic Business Function

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There’s an exciting movement happening right now in HR where HR and people ops professionals are seeing an elevation of the strategic importance they play in an organization. 

Part of what’s driving that trend is empowering HR leaders with data around performance and engagement. One of the best opportunities for HR executives and people ops professionals to continue elevating their voice and strategic contribution to the company is helping the organization build a capability of manager enablement and then offering evidence to the leadership team for the importance of a business partnership with HR.

To ensure we’re at the front end of this revolution, 15five recently acquired Emplify, a company that is so deeply aligned to the same vision and will help us go further, faster.  

In this episode of HR Superstars, we talked with Emplify co-founders, Santi Jaramillo and Adam Weber (now on the 15Five leadership team), about how Emplify and 15Five successfully joined two founding teams, two complimentary products, and two cultures to create more engaged and higher performing workplaces and help elevate the HR function. 

We also talked about:

-The demand for a single, streamlined software over metrics across multiple platforms.

-The advantages of combining data, education, and coaching.

-How to create a work environment where people take ownership.

-Why community is an essential pillar for supporting strategic HR initiatives.

For the entire interview, subscribe to HR Superstars on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Stitcher. Or, tune in on our website.

Join the movement to elevate HR to a strategic business function by joining our community.

How all those things move together. What it does? It allows an HR person actually do the work that they dreamed of. It's why we got into this industry. It's a like allow them to actually become the type of strategic leader that is like deeply inside of them. You're listening to HR superstars, a podcast from fifteen five that highlights stories from the front lines of HR and people ups. Each episode will showcase fascinating conversations with leaders offering their unique experiences and advice for building an extraordinary company and culture. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to another episode of HR superstars. I'm Shane Metcalf and I'm here with my cohost, David Hassell. Welcome everybody, and we're also here with two other amazing hosts, Adam Webber and Santi had a Mijo. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome you both to the show and you know part of the context of why you're both on the show. So you're both the founders, Co founders, of the company formerly known as implify, and it's really exciting. Some of our listeners may know this, may not, but fifteen five acquired implify about a month ago. Is actually the admitted official and we announced it and it has just been an absolute pleasure to go through the actual experience of a acquiring another company, be acquiring a company that is so deeply aligned to the same vision and operating by the same values, and see that it's almost like a captain planet moment where our powers combined make something far greater than we were separately. And so excited to dive into a little bit of the story of what we see of the future of work and kind of what make what's possible when we've merged these two HR tech companies, a little bit of the vision and the backstory behind this, hopefully some useful frames and tips around how to pull off a successful acquisition as well. Okay, so, David, you know, why don't you actually start with a little bit of the why behind this acquisition? Yeah, I think there's a all bit of backstory also to give it some context. Santi and I had gotten connected little over two years ago. I think it was in January, February, two thousand and nineteen and time we started to get to know each other in each other's companies really because I think we thought that there was there was a lot of synergy between what we were doing and actually on that on that first call, I realized that we were so values emission aligned it almost felt like we were brothers. I started referring to us as brother sister companies, like we had this kind of same intention in the world and what we wanted to create, what we were trying to do for our customers, but taking two very complementary and different approaches to it. And over the years we became mutual customers, we became go to market partners and I think you know, she and you and I had had conversations along the way. We're like, oh, how cool would it be if, like amplify was been fifteen five were together,...

...and there were a lot of reasons why it didn't seem to make sense along the way, but eventually, through conversations last year, through the pandemic, we realize the timing was right, the the opportunity was right for us to be able to come together create compelsers. Yeah, okay, so for those of you who might be wondering what is implify, Santie, I'd love for you to just give a little bit of an overview of what ample if I did, and that, as now a part of the fifteen five ecosystem. Thank Shane. It is first of all, it is so good to be on this podcast and be a fifteen five or today. So what implify helped our customers with is there is so much to do with people in culture. That has been for too long been such an art in a gut instinct, and what we really wanted to do was come up with a way that can we actually measure employee engagement and take a scientific, evidence based MRI scan of a culture and an employeees, create a really safe space for them to share their feedback and then really help h our leaders and executives get aligned on the best opportunities to improve employee engagement and the biggest risks to employee engagement and be able to then turn that into actionable programs and plans that drive it meaningful and measurable employee engagement increases that tie into business outcomes like less turnover, less voluntary turnover, less little productivity, less burnout, things like that. And so what we really did was we created a way to measure employee engagement then created a system for managers to be able to access data driven in coaching based on the reality of their current team, and so it was really a way to center in data but then make it truly actionable. And what was really interesting throughout our journey is that our customers absolutely loved, and still do our our solution. But then many times we would point out, we would diagnose issues and then we weren't necessarily equipped to help them with they would realize, boy, now we are so sure and so confident that we could fit we could really nail oneonones, the community weekly communication step between a manager and an employee, that that would create immense increases in the manager's drivers score of employee engagement, on trust and on several other capabilities. And they would ask us, well, look at great you help diagnose that, you help measure it. Now now what we do? And we started to look at where we needed to go next and fifteen five had built all of the things that our engagement surveys were pointing at as the main opportunities for companies to create more highly engaged teams that you know, you can tell and team is engaged with their heart and mind are in it, and employees that really care about the mission and the customers of the organization at a deeper level and so that's what amplify did and what we learn earned over time. That that really made this acquisition just feel so natural and just a natural roadmap for a customers of what they were asking for in the engagement journey as a company is a customer for over...

...two years of using amplify, what I loved is it didn't it gave me an engagement score, gave me a baseline that I could be like, okay, cool, but here's how we're doing relative to other companies our size. But it gave me so much more than that. I got to understand what's the state of Psychological Safety in our company? What's the state of People's rest? You know, our people getting enough sleeper? Is it easy to take breaks and to take time off? Do they have too much on their plate? And so it gave me so much more than just an engagement score, which I then used all of that data and it was you know, it's great because then I would go and ask questions in fifteen five to continue the conversation and we could really what was already using both of the platforms and conjunction, and I credit it for being an instrumental piece of our ability to go out and win all these best places to work awards because we had such a deeper insight into what was actually happening with our people, combined with the continuous conversations and dialogs happening in fifteen five. Yeah, and from our side, I mean I think the the it was it was really the opposite Sun. See what you just stared we had built all of these these tools to help managers be great at what they do and to create those outcomes, and our customers would share that. They believe that those were happening and some of them used their own diagnostics, but we didn't really have that up from diagnostic and so to be able to bring those two things together, it's it was almost like it was our internal secret sauce that we had both amplify and fifteen five amplify. As a customer and obviously building fifteen five for ourselves to as customer number one for a long time, and the opportunity to not just selectively go and help our customers with those two platforms but to actually combine it into one is just pretty, really, really exciting to do that now. I do think one of the neat things about both of our journeys is that for the last several years were both using each other's products, while we're trying to grow in scale and we're kind of seeing how well these two things fit together. And just like Shane is, you know, taking that date in converting into action, I'm taking the data, we're kind of building the same thing and and piecing things together the same way, and so just to see it all come together, it felt like such a natural fit. You know, is and you you combine that with relationships, like we're all getting to know each other. While you and Ssanto, you are having those conversations date, Shane and I are calling each other. For example, when the pandemic hid and we went from a an office culture to fully remote it amplify overnight. WHO's the first person I called? I was like, well, I called Shane because I know that you all had such a highly engaged culture, and we implemented immediately, like a the question Friday and you know, we're starting. We started to put into place some of the practices that you all already had as well. You got to make a good point there, which is, I think, another part of it for us. I mean, we had your data about engagement right, not have you do what you are getting into. And I mean, I think, but, but it is challenging to be in this space and to sort of Gualk the talk right and sort of lived by what you preached. And I think that was that such a big...

...thing for us. And you know, last year I went out and talked to lots of hrrows and chief people officers and I heard a couple of consistent things. Number one, there's a tremendously exciting movement right now, revolution happening in HR and people ups where there is an elevation of the strategic importance that HR leaders and people opts professionals can have an organization where, of course they should have been and should now, but it's now just cut catching up really strategic seat at the table executives and a pink. Part of what's driving that, that trend is data, is chrs and cheap people officers not just being saying hey, CEO, cfoc oh, we should spend this money to fix this program or higher this this people ops coordinator for this area, and it's like why will because like I just know it. I talked to people in my gut tells me that it's right and to be able to bring data to that conversation can change the conversation and immediately it's chief people officer and a CHR is bringing the same business case that a marketer. It's that a CMO or were a chief revenue officer can bring to the table to say, if you give me this dollar, I can turn it into this measurable improvement of a bloy engagement and lower turnover, increased productivity, improve customer news by x amount and doing it through people powered outcomes, and I think that was an important change. Another thing that I heard is that they didn't want multiple platforms to integrate and do all this thing. They wanted to trust a single partner, not just a vendor, but a partner that would really help them go from where they're out today to the aspirational vision of the future for their culture that they have. And that not only takes an engagement company like amplify was, and not only take a continuous performance management and and and goals company and and so much more that fifteen five is, but it's all of that Together plus manager coaching, plus education, plus community, which it is very clearly part of the thesis. Is that are the folks that we are serving, that we are making heroes that we are helping every day, want to single partner with all of this together, and so for us this is a very natural step into seeing our vision come true, and we could have done it independently in a much longer time frame, or we could have give it to our customers today, working with people that we had a very deep values level, had very shared views of the world, and maybe the most important one being one of the best opportunities for HR executives and people obstrofessionals to can to you, elevating their voice and strategic contribution to the company, is helping the organization build an organizational capability of manager enablement of amazing managers at every level of the organization that are equipped with the data about their teams current state and the tools, software, coaching, community and partners that they need to be amazing managers, and how that was even more important in the crazy world that we're in today, that the world of the manager has become more important than ever and...

...more challenging than ever as they are caring for the emotional and psychological state of their teams. So it's one of the things that I think is really interesting is that the corporate business world has never had access to as holistic of a view of their people that they do now, and we're just that they were in the infancy of this of being able to not just see the productivity of our people, but also be measuring things like psychological safety and rest and capacity, meaning values, and the quantitative data of fee, you know, building a true a true culture of feedback where you have so much more information about your people to help them do the best work of their life. And so I think that there's this this kind of emerging innovation that's going to be happening when we start looking at all this Daya together. You know, what are the patterns when we see performance management? They da next to engagement data combined with a coach that's working with all of that to find the leverage points for that manager to step up from just being a task manager to somebody it's truly helping to unlock the potential of their team. Yeah, and on top of that, you know, I think the the next thing that I'm super excited about that we just happened to also be working on independently prior to US coming together, is part of helping to elevate that HR leader to the strategic role is to essentially have them be able to enable and empower those managers directly right and and have the managers then take a lot of that load of uplifting the culture, engagement of performance of the company off of HR's hands. So this isn't just about providing the insights to HR and having them act. It's giving the incise to hr and to the managers so that the managers know exactly where they stand and what they need to improve on. And then, on top of that, can we give them the education, the coaching, etc. Directly to help improve the very specific things each individual manager has to work on. And that's that's the piece that we're building now that I'm super excited about. When the last time you looped your your managers into your engagement survey? Survey data? You know, just doesn't happen. It's just not been par for the course, which is silly, because the managers are the actual leverage point that makes all the difference in the world. You know what is it? Seventy percent of people, when they leave a company site, the manager is one of the primary reasons why they're leaving. Right and you know, they might loop them in, but they might loop them in on the global data, like here's how the whole company's performing, as opposed to here's the slice of your team and here's your team's engagement, here the underlying drivers that you need to work on. And then I'll differ from manager to manager. And when you think about this move from administrative hr to strategic hr, and then you look at the opportunity of engagement, data and performance, like we now have access to data. I think, and this goes all the way...

...back to the Genesis of why we started amplify in general, that technology is can go two ways. It actually and this is what why. Like, I think there's a huge risk that all of that information actually relegates hr to administrative and it doesn't elevate up to the strategic level. And so I think part of what makes this such a good fit as that that commitment to elevating HR rather than here's all this information and now you already had too much on your plate. Here's more. As opposed to a technology that goes we're going to make actually all the stakeholders in the organization work together, the executive team, the managers, the HR team, the employee and how all those things move together. What it does? It allows an HR person actually do the work that they dreamed of. It's why we got into this industry. It's a like allow them to actually become the type of strategic leader that is like deep inside of them. Okay, I'd like to ask kind of a personal question for Adam Santi. So I'm curious what the transition from being co founders of the company to being, quote unquote, employees of another company as like you know, we're now, you know, month in and so maybe the some of the initial identity crisis. I mean, you know, I'm just imagining myself. You know, maybe fifteen five gets acquired at some point or something, and say what it is that going to be like? That that process and that identity shift? Fifteen five is the only evidence based people and performance platform for highly engaged and high performing organizations. Strategic HR leaders in all industries use the platform to win by improving communication, up leveling their managers and increasing company wide engagement. Learn more at fifteen fivecom thinking from you is just awareness of how much of my identity I had put into my role at CEO and founder, and I think that would those interesting to then watch is that title and job is ends, is comes to an end, and then what remains after that? And it's also been interesting to watch myself, in a new context, begin to repeat some of the same patterns that I did it and I realized that that pattern I thought was unique to being a CEO, and it turns out that, Nope, I that's thing is still with me and I still need to work on it. And it's not just situational. It's like a me thing that I needed, need to sort of heal and and continue working on. And so it's been an amazing thing to sort of get plopped out from one environment that I've been in for a long time with a particular role. I'm kind of to be plopped into another one, and I mean I don't feel like an employee. I don't know it. I feel like yeah, I mean I don't feel like an employer, I feel like a cofounder without the the name or title, and I like don't need that, but I feel a sense of like we are kind of CO parenting...

...this child in a village kind of a thing, and I feel like one of the caretakers for this kid that we're raising that we have such high hope will continue to make such an effect in the world. So that's been interesting. There's been parts that have been sad to have a role end and an amplified journey end, but there's a ton of, I think, pride of that we built something really special Adam and I together and extremely grateful that the vision and the team and so much of it lives on in a really, really amazing home and we have an even broader village of folks to help contribute to to to it achieving its potential. So it is. It is a very special journey and lots of dynamics and layers to it, but I most days now it is just just so grateful and excited about what the possibilities that are ahead and and continuing to make my way as a recovering CEO, sometimes I say, and and building a sense of identity outside of a particular CEO Persona or identity that I that I may have built. Yeah, I'll go ahead. Oh, yeah, but yeah, right, before you go, Adam, I just I love the not feeling like an employee but feeling like a, you know, co coparent, raising raising this child in the village and it makes me think, how do we share that experience broader because I think in a way it's like, as a founder, you're kind of always going to have more of a founder mentality. But how do we how do we make employees not feel like employees and be like well, you're just a you're just a chess piece, you're just a pawn, and how do we actually help people feel like co stewards of this entity known as the company and have that ownership and have that kind of more of an entrepreneurial mindset, not an employee mindset? That so much. That too, I think, ties to having a purpose for your business that's bigger than you. And a part of me thinks the reason that we were so that we knew this acquisition was the right thing for us was back in January, before the pandemic, we spent we spent one day, is fourteen hours per us for Chord, and we started we talked that entire day in future tense. What is the world like? What will we have done in the world in five years? And by the end of that day, like our vision was so clear that what the world of, what the world needed, that it felt bigger than like our own roles and that in that moment and covid happens and you start to see, like wow, this is this thing that we thought was going to be in five years. It needs it, like the world needs it now, and so I think part of that is like the stewardship of like why maybe the transition or the coparent that concept is really like this. The world needs this thing and the only way to actually bring it to life is to join forces into like do it now, like there's no you know, there's no time to wait for it. I did, I did want a piggybacks are I know I'm going to topics EF. I want to piggyback on the...

...transition. It's been a lot easier because I think of the shared values alignment. Then it like I most days, I candidly wake up and I go I am really enjoying this. I don't know if I knew I'd be having so much fun, but I also feel simultaneously very disoriented. I mean we're only thirty days and I, like you know this. This the cofounder badge, is a badge that you you know, you really you really hold and it's something that you carry with you and and so I think just getting used to that has been something that's that's been has been unique. The you know the other one. If I'm I don't know if I want this, will decide if we're going to cut this it off. It one of the one of the honest things I've realized about not being a cofounder is I carried more role power than I realized and I thought I was aware of it, but you realize it even more just to like be in a meeting and you say something that you think is brilliant and then you're like there's fifteen other brilliant people in this meeting. You know, it's so you're just like and just like learning to be okay with that instead of you know, it is just it's just different. Just try. I'm just like getting to know myself, I guess, in like a new, new environment right now. Really Cool. I mean I love the both honoring the grief of the chapter ending but also realizing that it's like, oh no, you're still you. Like I remember when I was living in San Francisco and we were considering moving to Richmond in the East Bay, and what was coming up for me. The biggest resistance was like Oh what? Who am I going to be if I have to like put Richmond down in seat of San Francisco? And it was just like, Oh, this is total ego, this is all just my own sense of the identity that I've built for myself. And who will I be if I'm a Richmond night versus a San Francisco? And it's so silly and that's a very but I think that's a much more superficial level than our work identity. But to actually trust that our identity is less important than who we really are and that we will bring ourself in our gifts wherever we go. Hmm, I think, for me use, I think meeting David and getting to know him over the years and we had probably a year, year and a half where we would kind of hop on call and you'd be like, are we going to compete with each other, like are you building engagements and are we building what you're doing? And well, and that's that right there. That level of transparency that was happening was already different. But both of you were saying, Hey, well, we're probably going to end up competing with each other and here's what our plans are. Yeah, here's our plans. Oh, yeah, that's definitely going to clash. Like we weren't having that conversation with any of our other competitors. MMM. And there was a moment for the four of us. I mean this is now, it's been a year and a half ago, and this before you get you call us. He said, Hey, it's time, we're going to we're going to build a competitive solution, but we feel like we owe it to you all to let you know. And we hung up that call and we were just like that, what a stand up, like what stand up people? Yea To let to call you to let you know, and it was done with such...

...kindness and care and also like a just so you know, we also love your products. So as long as you'll let us keep using your products, get to use it, even though we're your competitor. That was money because we we were we started to build our own engagement solution and you know, I was still using amplify and so I was getting all these questions from our team like hey, when are we going to use our own product? And then, and then it was really funny once, once we were in the acquisition talks and people were like asking when are we going to use our own product and I was just like making these inside jokes. I go soon are on my really soon. Totally. I think that moment of that call, hanging up and kind of like reflecting on that with Adam, was the was like, I think, the moment where my mind first open to the EGO side of me not needing to be the guy, that the person that was the head of the vision. But I think it was that moment also that Adam talked about, of him and I and a few others really like birthing this vision that was then bigger than us, and the vision called for this acquisition to happen, regardless of my ego. So the vision, in the purpose of the company were became bigger than me or Adam or the team, and it was it was all about how do we what is the best chance of US seeing this vision of of a better world via being what we do in engagement happen. And it was my own journey to to realize that I didn't need to be in his meeting, meeting David, to be like okay, that I could actually be led by by by David, and it sort of trust, trust our baby and in a new home, and it has been everything has just exceeded our expectations in that way, at least, I'll speak for myself. So cool, I'm so I'm so grateful that you guys said yes that it was such a special match, because I think our two companies are such a special and unique match and it's I mean already thirty days in the conversations we are having, in the possibilities of what we're going to be able to deliver now to our customers in terms of both the engagement of performance for managers elevate the HR leaders. It just feels like we put everything on. You know, we've super charged and the vision and we're moving it a pace that we could not have done independently. Not sure if any of you have read Simon Sina's infinite game and just the concept of an infinite game that you know, in an infinite game the idea is that every move should be played in order to keep playing the game rather than to win the game and in the game. And so it feels like in this vision of using our work places as incubators for human potential, for human development and so that we go to work where it's not just like our soul gets crushed for a paycheck. We exchange the most precious thing that we have in life, which is our attention and our presence, for a for financial rewards. But the...

...we actually go and we we become better versions of ourselves through the process of working for a company, and that is a that is an infinite game. Right. We're probably not going to achieve that as the default and our lifetime, but the vision of that, the grandiosity, the the audacity of that as our objective, I think makes the magnetic north aligned the pieces of our separate companies together into a single entity that is actually striving towards that. I think you just accidentally answered your own question, Shane. You have you talked about how do you create a work environment where people feel like founders? You do that. You create an environment that invites people to collect more than just a paycheck but self actualize in a community of other people with a shared vision that's meaningful for the world, an environment that calls forth and supports the potential of someone. And I think that when you, as an organization, deliver an employee experience that helps someone become more of their best self, people give people then, in return for that amazing gift, then return their hearts and minds for the mission of the organization and for the customers. And I think when we only deliver a paycheck, that's when people give the bare minimum of just to get by and not get fired. But when we invite them into that journey of becoming more of their best left, when you create an environment that is all the ingredients for that, then people are like, Oh wow, I'll put roots here and I'll like and I'll fruit and I'll give those fruits to the company. And that's why and engage employees like forty four percent more productive in somebody who's satisfied and checked out right fifty percent. It's not working necessarily more hours, it's just caring. More equals so much more impact and outcomes and it's beautiful when you create an environment, not only to us your business win, but you feel really good about your legacy as a leader. Well, in variated on it's a long term contribution. Okay, when you when you help somebody have a realization about themselves and their strengths are are become a little bit more self actualized while they're working for you. It doesn't go away when they leave your company. That is something they take with them for the rest of their lives, and that is, for me, one of the coolest things is that. You know, because as a larger company now, you know we have people leave, the people come in and people are leaving, and I know that. Or are these I'm hoping they were worth setting people up to continue thriving for the rest of their lives. I think you have this really cool framework. Got Them You you put it in your book. Lead like a human. Those there's three things really necessary for amazing work, and I'm curious if you've you willing to share that, because I think that's that's another blends by which to, I think, see, see this, which is the product that you really believe in, and the...

...paint and kindn't know if I'm the next book. That's that's the next book. A just cut this whole thing. Man, that part I was I was fifty and I went for it and I missed. Like it's great, right. So that's it's prompt you, Adam, to talk community. Okay, so you know, in this whole conversation where we're looking at software, which is the the software platform that we're creating, there's education, which is the training that the actual content that can change hearts and minds and introduce new concepts and ideas of what is this New Paradigm of leading and managing? And then there is community, and, Adam, we're really excited that you're taking on leading community for fifteen five and so would love to just hear a little bit around what your vision for that is and why why we're betting on community as an essential pillar for creating and supporting customer transformation. Yeah, and I'm really excited about it. And for those of you who don't know that amplify, I was the chief people officer and during an acquisition, you come over and we have there's a shame here and probably, like many of the listeners I was listening to this podcast, this is one of the places I would go, because what I noticed is that there's other chief people officers who are really strategic, who are sharing these insights, who are kind of in this small but mighty group of people who've made this transition from the administrative to the strategic to align to the values of a modern workforce. And so, you know, new season and it's like, what if I could help be a part of that journey for other people, other I know there is a contingency of HR leaders out there who want to move into that strategic side of the business, who who want to create high performance, highly engaged cultures, and what they're looking for is permission to learn, to know that it's okay. They're looking for resources and how to grow and they're looking for connection with other people and and so that's what we're created. We've just launched it's called the HR superstars community. We'd love to have you join and it's a place where you'll be able to learn from other people on the journey and some of the folks, for example, that are speaking on this podcaster there to share their expertise as well. We'll see, David. This is something that CEOS have access to all the time. We have a rate, David. You have peer groups of other CEOS. I had that when I was a CEO, and this is really bringing that peer community of learning and development for h arm and people offs and allowing them the opportunity to to have those same experiences that we are so privileged to have, but create a container for support and learning, and it's amazing. It is and it's so impactful when you get around other people who are trying to do the same thing, to have that sense of camaraderie and to really, you know, love the term that Keith Frazi is coined about coelevation. You know, we come together to elevate each other and that's really a big part of the community as well. All right, so if you want to coelevate together with other HR and people leaders, go to fifteen fivecom slash community and you can sign up and there's a wealth of...

...resource and information there. I want to just take a moment and say thank you, Adam and Santy, not only for joining us on the pod cast but joining us in a very big leap of faith to co raise this baby called fifteen five together. What you feel like? Maybe it's like a tween. Now, you know, we've got a tweet and and it's truly an honor. It's amazing to have your genius and your gifts at the table and helping us to write this next chapter. So thank you both so much. Thank you for the invitation and the welcome and we're just we're just getting started and it's such an exciting time. Thank you. It's a privilege to do this with you all and a privilege to bring this this vision to life. Fifteen five is the only evidence based people and performance platform for highly engaged and high performing organizations. Strategic Hur leaders in all industries use the platform to win by improving communication, up leveling their managers and increasing company wide engagement. Learn more at Fifteen Fivecom you've been listening to HR superstars stories from the front lines of HR and people ops. Be Sure you never miss an episode by subscribing on your favorite podcast player. If you're listening on Apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a thoughtful review or give a quick rating by tapping the stars. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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